Pointslessness: An Experiment in Teenage Psychology
But, in a system with no points, what were they getting away with? It quickly became a very surreal post-modern classroom. Students began to engage with the readings after they were supposed to be read.
Abstract:
In this, one teacher’s vain attempt at public education without grades, a class of students are given the opportunity to engage with learning for the sake of learning and nothing else. Grading was not entirely avoided, but it was eschewed for as long as possible: 90% of the total course time was void of all grading rhetoric. A final grade (A-F) was given, which was determined by a final project whose rubric was designed by the students with facilitation from the instructor.
Introduction:
I know that I can’t be a life-long, full-time, classroom teacher. Don’t get me wrong, I love teaching, but it just tears me apart.
I obsess. I work myself into tizzies built upon fits punctuated by conniptions. Mostly over the simple question: “Are they learning what they need to learn to be successful people?” A teacher’s mind wildly oscillates between feeling like an effective life-changer and a dejected baby sitter.
So, in the never-ending quest to help students actually learn, I tried my most radical experiment yet: an almost absolute moratorium on any kind of numerical or letter grading. I say almost because at the end of the semester a final project was assigned, which determined their final letter grade, because I’m not allowed to just give “pass” or “fail.”
It was something else.
The kids showed up like they were playing against Ohio State in the championship game. They discussed. They fought. They laughed. They were perplexed. It was awesome. They had the freedom to put my class on the back burner when other classes ramped up the work load, but never once did I feel that the class was playing me for a fool.
It was school like I’ve never seen it before. They were never worried about scores, so they just talked to me about interesting stuff. Here’s a quote:
I felt really great about not getting graded. It was a lot easier to focus on learning (and enjoying it) while not having to worry about pleasing the teacher to get a grade. When we did stuff that we liked and wrote about it, we could write what we actually felt and not have to answer the questions in some prompt. I really liked it.
Some of you are burning a little bit reading this. You’re thinking: “Yeah, well that works for your hippy liberal bioethics class, but what about something of import, like Anatomy, or Statistics?”
To answer, I don’t know. Upon reading my students’ final projects, something strange has come up. They all sort of learned the same things. If I had created a list of standards for this course — which I did, albeit nebulously — most of what they wrote about would have been on that list.
Methods:
How did this happen? Feedback. They wrote, and I wrote more. They asked, and we had conversations. I taught about commas and Kevorkian, they asked about genetics and uncontacted peoples.
The day-to-day looked like this: I promised to only bring up things that were interesting. I had to trust the natural world to bring up the important stuff. Here’s the list of things we read, but don’t judge the course on this list. Imagine the conversations that were created by weaving these pieces of media into one coherent narrative.
Each day we would discuss the readings, movies, or whatever. At first this was difficult, I had a hard time letting go of comprehension quizzes and short little did-you-do-it zingers. These are vestiges of a disgusting toy economy. The students didn’t know what to do either. I could tell the students who hadn’t read the material felt like they were getting away with something.
But, in a system with no points, what were they getting away with? It quickly became a very surreal, post-modern classroom. Students began to engage with the readings after they were supposed to be read. Many students who were traditional slackers in English class would choose to read after our class discussions. It turns out, that they really don’t know how to read for comprehension.

We read and watched a lot. I showed some pretty risque things, we talked about some pretty amazing stuff. For instance, we spent 90 minutes yelling at each other about whether Jay-Z should have been aborted. This came from a reading from the original Freakonomics book; wherein it was discussed that abortion is a seemingly legit way to control births of less than scrupulous people. Jay-Z either is or isn’t this type of person, depending on who you ask, and what period of his life you consider; discussion ensued.
As the class came to an end, we realized that we had to decide what grades people were going to get.
Hands wrung.
Brows furrowed.
I toyed with just giving everyone an A, but, well, I’m not looking to get fired. So, instead we had many long conversations about what letter grades mean. Most students were furiously engaged with this, and we came to the conclusion that the letter grades should relate how well you could connect all of our ethical readings.
The final project was born: Successfully connect everything we’ve talked about with a new source of your choice. Cornally will be the judge of “successful” because he’s paid to make judgement calls, and he’s ostensibly a professional educator, ostensibly, mind you.
The projects were taken seriously, and the products were for the most part well done. Continuing with the abortion thread, a student who was nominally pro-choice chose to attempt to prove that abortion was wrong. This student chose to embed a serious attempt at philosophy. He read up on Descartes, epistemology, and basic philosophy before attempting to prove a few things. It’s an exercise, not a diatribe, and I think he did well especially given his real opinion is much more centric.
However, some of the students regressed. They became worried about what grade they were going to get instead of their ethical argument. I talked most of them out of it, but a few were by far too addicted.
Results:
- The students somehow managed to learn the big ideas without ever being graded on them.
- The kids who didn’t do the readings found out what it means to actually lose out philosophically rather than just economically. Things changed for the better over time with them.
- I have never felt so much stress in my life. Especially when an angry parent demanded to know her student’s grade part way through, it took more than a few emails to explain what was going on.
- A few of the final projects were truly awful. What does that mean? I’m not sure, but I can for sure say that students who produced these projects were more engaged in class than their product indicated. Man, grading sucks.
- Teaching content they didn’t care about was hard. I tried to give a lecture on genetics that was really unmotivated. I had to wait until we were talking about what goes wrong with cystic fibrosis before they would care about RNA and stuff. Lesson learned, Cornally.
- A few students said it was the most important class they have ever taken. Hell yeah. If you can’t get up for that, you don’t understand teaching.
- Teenagers still have an unbelievable natural curiosity. I think the most important result of this experiment is that the fear that this curiosity is killed sometime during primary school is false. It’s dormant, but given freedom, they can quickly dust things off.
Conclusion: Feedback Matters
When the students produced something, I attmepted to remove the “school” from it. I looked at it through a lens asking the question “why would anyone care to read this on the Internet?” I responded with directed and standards-based feedback. While I tried to avoid the inevitable Good-Jorb-Homestring, they sometimes happened.
What the students cared about most was that my comments were split into three groups:
- Writing Mechanics
- Clarity of Argument (augmented Claim-Warrant-Impact)
- Scientific evidence for argument (this of course had sub standards, like inheritance, neurology…)
A number was never attached. Students got specific feedback about how they were writing, presenting, and making arguments for or against ethical positions. The lack of numerical delineation forced students to read the feedback and actually ask themselves the only question I care about:
Where am I, and how can I get better?
PreBackchannel Pointslessness: Some Meta Feedback
[...] I’ve increased the length and breadth of my feedback to the students. After being goaded into writing more feedback, I’ve written more on students quizzes than ever [...]
[...] Pointslessness: An Experiment in Teenage Psychology: Shawn Cornally ran a bioethics class where their work for almost the entire year did not count toward their grade and they discussed readings and movies which were “interesting” (not sure what was used to qualify these things as interesting, but when looking through the list I’m pretty sure I would find most of those things interesting). Without the marks attached the students engaged in the discussions for the sake of engaging in the discussions and those students that usually try to glean what is going on from only the classroom discussions (instead of doing the readings themselves) would often go and do the readings after the discussions. [...]
[...] 2. I have to give grades. So what I’m toying with now is what Shawn Cornally writes about in this post. I may have to give grades, but what if I postponed them until I absolutely had to give [...]
I am a student in an AP Statistics class like this where at the end of every marking period we do a project on “skills” that my teacher gives us. We are graded on every skill, but we can always re-do them to get a new grade.
Pros:
-Less stress
-We actually do have great classrooom discussions
-No time spent on tests
-No faking homework
-It’s pretty much impossible to cheat
-We don’t try to please the teacher to get points
-Great feedback on what we did wrong
Cons:
-We don’t feel the urgency to know the material until we have to do the project
-By not having tests we don’t study the material because we can use our books for the projects
-Class in considered low-priority because if we don’t like our grade we can always change it
-If we aren’t ‘feeling it’ we can just completely not pay attention
@Mike:
That’s some awesome information you’ve provided. Consider yourself pumped to a post.
Shawn, you said, “The students somehow managed to learn the big ideas without ever being graded on them.” I can and do believe this, but I believe you missed out (or at least chose not to blog about it in this post) on an important part of the formative assessment / standards-based grading philosophy: specific feedback to students based on the intended learning targets for the course. Did your students know how well they were progressing towards understanding these big ideas or could you honestly say that a few students made it all the way to the final project and then were hit with the brick wall, “I didn’t know that I didn’t know about _______.” If not, well-done. Tell us more about the writing and conversations you had with the students. Did you ever say, “Hey Johnny, you really understand the pros and cons of abortion, but you don’t know much at all about genetics.”? If not, I think your students were robbed of a HUGE opportunity – the answer to the question, “Where am I now in relation to understanding [insert big idea]?”
I’m looking forward to your feedback…. (irony intended)
Matt: Well met. Although I feel like I made it pretty clear that feedback was the only thing I was giving. “they wrote, I wrote back more.”
As usual, your point is 100% spot on. It turns out feedback is the only thing that kids really care about. They get caught up in grades when we withhold feedback. I assure this course was pure narrative feedback of the most fun variety — the kind that doesn’t end with a number!
Thanks for this great update on your experiment. This really has me thinking about my own teaching and what I can do to get my department, division, and school (Hamline University) to start talking about what evidence a student needs to show she’s earned a college degree. My students do homework, exams, labs, projects, hallway conversations, youtube movies, and on and on and on. The grades at the end of the time are probably the shortest list you could show someone interested in the evidence of learning but, are you listening choir because I’m preaching, they’re not very good at communicating nuance. I think a cool conversation to have with my colleagues would be to ask what sort of portfolio would have the right length and depth to communicate evidence of learning for a student that could replace a transcript. I know I put a ton of time into letters of recommendation and I also know that I give such things a lot of weight when I’m deciding whether to accept someone or give them a scholarship. But, for now, GPA is king in most of those conversations. Wow, Shawn, thanks for turning on my brain today! -Andy (@arundquist)
[...] In this, one teacher’s vain attempt at public education without grades, a class of students are given the opportunity to engage with learning for the sake of learning and nothing else. Grading was not entirely avoided, but it was eschewed for as long as possible: 90% of the total course time was void of all grading rhetoric. A final grade (A-F) was given, which was determined by a final project whose rubric was designed by the students with facilitation from the instructor. via 101studiostreet.com [...]
Shawn confesses that the process has been less than successful, controversial and somewhat messy. That assessment reflects my experience and it does not concern me much. To expect anything else is to buy into the theory that systems can perfectly manage or measure human endeavour. Nothing in my experience leads me to that conclusion. I listen to each new learning or discipline approach in education and remind myself that everything works… until it doesn’t. It all is all contextual, demands reflection and dialogue. Nothing about teaching and learning is ever automatic or controlled. I hope teachers like Shawn don’t give in and return to grading. I remember grading everything and I recall the fights and arguments with students and parents over the validity of those grades. Percentages and letters are wonderful things… until you start questioning them.
Congratulations, both for trying the experiment, and on the results. And thanks for doing it and writing about it. Your blog has been a consistent source for clear descriptions of dynamics I am just getting to know.
So: will you do this for calculus and physics next year?
“Teenagers still have an unbelievable natural curiosity. I think the most important result of this experiment is that the fear that this curiosity is killed sometime during primary school is false. It’s dormant, but given freedom, they can quickly dust things off…”
I’ll double down on all of that and extend that to college students and adult learners.